Welcome to spirituality mental health. I'm your host Don Mackintosh and I'm joined today with Dr. Daniel bias, who actually runs the beautiful minds clinic. Is that correct? That is correct. And it's wonderful to be here talking with all of you about religion and recovery. Right?

So this is kind of, you know, an unusual topic, especially when you're thinking about psychotherapy over the last, you know, number of years. I may be wrong, but I think that a large number of people in this profession actually would say they're not really strong believers. Absolutely. And that's really the tradition that psychotherapy has been steeped in, all the way back in from Freud and others. And really, you can see that in the past. Most therapists and with most mental health professionals in general have thought of religion as a really pathological thing.

Yeah, I've read some of those quotes. I mean, for instance, Freud, he says, religion is a mass delusion in which people attempt to procure happiness and protection against suffering through a delusional remodeling of reality. That's not very positive. Now. And that's unfortunately, what the schools of thought have really encouraged therapists and psychiatrists to basically look at patients that are using religion as a coping mechanism as delusional or maybe at the best as weak minded because they can't come up with other ways to deal with their problems. Yeah, another one that, you know, I've been involved in and we've known each other a number of years but a number of very famous psychotherapists was Albert Ellis.

He said this religious belief is essentially synonymous with emotional disturbance. And there is a directive linear relationship between the degree of Orthodoxy In other words, the commitment to it, and the emotional disturbance. So this these kinds of statements are kind of ubiquitous, at least back in the 70s. You know? Absolutely. And what's interesting is that there has been some shift that's actually gone on over the years.

But, you know, even as I was trained, you still have that underlying current thought that, you know, this is kind of a weak way of dealing with mental health problems. It's kind of almost a cop out to deal with bring religion into the picture. And yet, you know, Christianity seems to be growing more and more people are coming to faith in these stressful times we live in people seem to be, you know, in America, for instance. There's all kinds of people 79% of Americans consider themselves affiliate. with religion 93% believe in God 77% consider themselves to be religious. And I looked at some data the other day that that said, you know, in every state in America, the largest percentage of religious believers is Judeo Christian.

So in other words, even though there's this group of professionals, highly trained professionals that I believe at heart want to help everybody, they're kind of out of step with, with where people are. That's absolutely true. And it is very interesting when you start exploring the idea of what do you do with those problems that are clearly outside of your control. And if you if you don't have someone or something to go to in a paradigm to work from, that really provides you some some sense of relief, then that makes it very difficult and challenging. And like you said, you know, most people actually do have a spiritual and religious sort of belief system. And I think It's important for us as mental health professionals to actually help people to connect with that belief system in a healthy way so that they can receive the the the healing that they need, and so they can receive the help that they need through their value system.

Yeah. And I think probably one of the things that those that are listening to this should do we have attached, you know, a worldview sheet, where I'll go through this Maybe another time, but it helps them clarify where their worldview is, because sometimes people don't even know what their values are. They haven't never really thought about that. And so what we try and do at the outpatient with people, the beautiful, beautiful minds outpatient program, is we help them see where they really are and then ask them Do they really want to strengthen that because if they strengthen it, they actually it's a powerful resource? Absolutely. And it's interesting because you know, as the research has actually continued to develop in the area of Religion and mental health and spirituality and mental health, they're starting to realize it has such an important role in people's mental health that to actually ask not ask somebody about their religious practices and their spiritual beliefs is not practice, because it's a very important aspect of, of developing themselves as as an individual and improving their mental health.

And I ask every new patient that comes in the door, you know, what their spiritual beliefs are. And certainly, it's never our goal to impose any sort of specific religious beliefs on anybody, but it's important to understand where someone's coming from, and then try to encourage the development of healthy spiritual beliefs that actually supports a road to true wellness. I think that's great. I read some of those reports for the Joint Commission of how hospitals where they say exactly that. But then they also follow up and say that only 11% of physicians actually ask those questions. So you must be in the top 10%.

Now another some research says between 53 and 77% of clients want to have a discussion about religious or spiritual issues with their therapists clients think that therapists who integrate religion and spirituality are more competent than those that do not. So you also not only the top 10%, but you're considered very competent by a lot of people when you do that. Which is maybe part of why people tend to come back not because I'm this amazing psychiatrist, but because I'm willing to get my hands dirty, quote, unquote, with some of these topics that might be a little bit uncomfortable sometimes to other people, other providers. And, you know, I think that's one of the big reasons a lot of providers actually don't want to ask these questions because it can get a little sticky, but I think if we under Stand that, hey, this is an opportunity for us to get to know each other better.

There's no judgment here. There's no criticism, it's supporting healthy growth of your mental health, then I think, you know, it can really paved the way for a really healthy discussion. Yeah, I mean, I look at some of the research the effectiveness of spiritual religious interventions of psychotherapy and counseling. It talks about positive outcomes when you include this in depression, anxiety, schizophrenia, and other things. Have you seen that in your practice? Absolutely.

And I think it goes back somewhat to what I've mentioned earlier, as far as those things in your life, they're clearly out of out of your control. What do you do with that? And when people actually start to develop the sense that hey, there could be something greater than me and not just something greater out there that's nebulous, but actually some someone that cares for me personally, and that has power greater than me or All these things in my life and they start being able to have the idea that I can trust this individual and, and and I can believe that good things can still come out of very difficult circumstances that can provide tremendous relief and tremendous peace even in the midst of great suffering. You know, and I think because of this, and I think that's, that's exactly what we see. And I really enjoy working with you here at beautiful minds and with others I work with for the last 1012 years on this because I've seen that power.

It's not something I can do. It's not something they do is some power that helps them and they tap into that. I think in light of this, you know, things are beginning to shift even in the mental health arena. You know, Ellis, Albert Ellis who disparage religious beliefs, he now gives it you know, a high regard to the Bible. Let me just read this to you and then we'll talk about some of the practice of what we do to get involved in this. spiritual journey here, beautiful minds.

I think I can safely say that the Judeo This is Ellis, the one who was disparaging the Bible etc. I think I can safely say that the Judeo Christian Bible is a self help book that has probably enabled more people to make more extensive and intensive personality and behavioral changes, then all professional therapists combined. And to me, that's just one of the most amazing quotes Albert Ellis is one of the fathers of CBT cognitive behavioral therapy and, you know, in the 1970s, He really said, Look, religions as illusion, it's something that weak minded people use to kind of squeak by in life, but it's not helpful. And then he went on to turn around and say, You know what, I changed my mind and he used cognitive behavioral therapy himself on himself and he said, You know what, I need to reevaluate my cognitive distortion here and realize that Spirituality, Healthy Spirituality that not just spirituality, the Bible itself is the greatest self help book that was ever written.

Yeah. And you know, there's great chapters about it later on one of the other therapists here, that does CBT, I'm going to interview her. And she kind of specializes in this. And then I'm going to show some of the chapters from that book that he's recommending the Judeo Christian Bible that do the same thing. So we're going to look at that as part of the series, we're going to look at hope we're going to look at other aspects that you know, and this is about a 10 or 12 part series where we're looking more closely. But you know, when patients come here, you make them feel comfortable, we kind of follow up and help them as well as you know, extenders of what you're doing.

We give them a spiritual questionnaire and I just wanted to show you this and get your reaction studies have shown that depressed patients with higher intrinsic religiosity scores and others. A really Believe it have more rapid remissions than patients with lower scores. Patients recovered from depression 70% sooner with every 10 point increase in the religiosity assessment score. And such results indicate that clinicians should encourage reconnection with religion as a way of coping and patients whose spirituality has been important to them. Absolutely, I think this is something I see very frequently in my practice is those people that aren't just cultivating a form of religion, in other words, going through the traditions and the end the the ceremonies and this sort of thing. But they're all they're really focused on cultivating a healthy connection in their hearts to God, that this is what gives them a great sense of comfort, peace, encouragement, and strength that helps them to overcome things like depression, anxiety, and I see examples of this all the time.

Would you want to share any of those as we close? Absolutely. I think about one individual who was really struggling with his own sense of self worth and, and identity. And he really struggled with a lot of social anxiety and depression as a result of that. And as he started to grasp the idea that perhaps there was a God that actually cared for him and loved him as an individual. He started when he got into those modes of Oh man, I'm worried about what this person is thinking about me or or start having self deprecating thoughts.

He started asking him not not just asking himself, but he would stop and he would say, God, what do you think of me right now? And it started to change his his paradigm because he started to say, You know what? I believe God accepts me and loves me just just as I am. So instead of being so self critical or worrying about what other people were thinking about him, his focus changed to God, what do you think about me and that started to really change His own view of himself and his in the view of the world, and he started to actually hit and gain a lot more confidence. And his mood and anxiety symptoms have really diminished dramatically, largely as a result of that practice right there. Man, I think that's just a great story.

And the other thing I've noticed is that when you start getting into the narratives of the Bible, we started reading and these were a lot of people that were depressed, they were anxious, and they figured out with God's help, how to get through that and some people are just shocked. They didn't even know there was stories about depressed people I didn't even know until I started to read it through that lens of crash and anxiety. And oh, great resource. Absolutely. And it's really interesting because even if someone didn't believe in the Bible, for example, just the stories and the examples that are written there can be very helpful for for many people, even from a theoretical perspective. And then if you start having an understanding of how God really does care about you individually and want to help you, then it becomes even more powerful.

So check out beautiful minds outpatient program. It's great, we see great numbers, we got some stats going on showing how hope increases over the course of the program, many other things, the depression scores, improve everything else is one of those elements, not just the physical, not just the emotional, not just the mental, but also the spiritual and that's why we assess it as a part of listening to this, this particular segment, you may want to fill out the spiritual question here. You may want to do the worldview analysis as well. Thank you so much, doctor for joining us. I know you're busy. Thanks for stopping by.

Thanks for having me. And one other thing I want to add is, even if you can't come physically to our outpatient program, we are also making resources available For Connect, connecting with life and health coaches to help you on your journey, so we want you to know that there's resources and help available for you, regardless of where you are around the country or even the world for that matter. We want to help support you on your path of healing. Thanks again. Thank you, Don.