Welcome back to spirituality and mental health. I'm your host Don Mackintosh and we've been talking about cognitive behavioral therapy from a spiritual actually a biblical perspective with Amanda anguish, who's a cognitive behavioral therapist here at beautiful minds medical, and works in the outpatient program, as do I from time to time. And the whole purpose of this series is actually to help people go deeper many times they hit and miss with our lectures, and we're wanting to have a more comprehensive approach to the spiritual aspects. And in our last section together, we defined what CB T was we looked at some of the history we talked about how you started to integrate biblical concepts into your practice. And what I want to do now is this take a biblical story that I've often pointed to, and it's from the Gospel of Luke, Luke was in position Luke means light Maybe he'll enlighten us here.

And we want to look at the what I think is some early notes of a CBT therapy session, a cognitive behavioral therapy session where Christ himself as the therapist, so, you know, I kind of use an acronym rst rational, emotive spiritual therapy for this. But let's just work through this. And I'm going to ask you some questions or we'll dialogue back and forth. Okay. And this is a story. You see it on the screen there that starts in Luke the 24th chapter, looking at verse 13 through 15 now behold, two of them were traveling that same day to a village called a maze was was seven miles from Jerusalem and they talked together of all these things which had happened and so it was that while they conversed and reason that Jesus Himself drew here and went with them.

Now there's interesting words, here's the word talked conversed reason. When you counsel people, is there a difference between people talking to you conversing with you our reasoning. Yes, there, there is a difference. Sometimes they're saying all sorts of things and they don't realize what they're saying. They're just talking, they're just talking and I'm paying attention to the beliefs that might be behind what they're saying. So, you know, talking would be kind of like, you know, just saying things.

Conversing would be, you know, convert we get the word convert from there. So it's actually talking with the idea of converting some ever heard someone say, Look, let me talk to them. Yeah. Which means that and people come to talk to you because they need to be, you know, converted to a different way of thought. And then reasoning the word there is a lot gizmos with logic, this is what you always are doing, right? That's actually the the point of cognitive behavioral therapy is to be logical about things to reason.

So it looks like Jesus is onto something. He knows the difference between talking and conversing, or at least Luke does as he records it. So, reasoning is the big thing they use that that's the main thing as it's the our in our acronym. Well, let's keep going on Luke 2416 and 17. But their eyes were restrained, so they did not know Him. And He said to them, what kind of conversation is that you have with one another as you walk and our said, What are you picking up there?

Well, they're obviously saying some things or believing some things behind their talk that's creating that emotional response of sadness. So you you see emotions. Is there a connection between thoughts, emotions and behaviors? Absolutely. There's always a connection and that's what you're bringing out probably in your assessment. So so far so good.

This is a this is actually pretty typical of your own counseling. Yep. But it's Jesus doing it now. You know, they did some research give como Rizal la t he looked at me Are neurons and he found that these mirror neurons actually we reflect sometimes what we see whether it be on television where people were interacting, those, these activating events actually have something in our minds and they were in the lab one day, and they were watching. They were talking together about some stuff. And then they left.

And one of the primates picked up a peanut and ate it. And they saw this activate a certain part of their brain, but then they picked it up and the primate side or this, you know, chimpanzee or whatever, and the same section lit up in their brain even though they didn't do it. So you know, mirror neurons fire not only do we perform a certain action, but when we watch someone else performing that action, so this would be what would this be called? mirroring, or maybe a trigger? Yeah, it trigger. So like, if you see someone that looks the same way you like, maybe you're angry.

You know, relative mm hmm, that triggers that. Yeah. Or if you see somebody else like that person that can trigger you to Yeah, so this is kind of subterranean, but they noticed it in this research. And, you know, he can see on the graph, that blue line was when they actually did an action, but then I don't remember which was which, but the red line was maybe when they heard about it, or maybe they saw it. And so, you know, it's not just the actions it's thinking about, it's remembering, and our brain is like, full of that stuff. We can actually feel good when we see somebody else doing something good and feel bad about ourselves when we see somebody else doing something bad.

So it actually matters who we hang out with. And if we're hanging out with negative Nelly or you know, bad news, Barney, not that we are against anyone's names. We have to be careful. Yeah, we do. So we have reasoning and we have emotions. Let's go on in the story.

Luke 2418 through 21 Are you the only state stranger in Jerusalem? These two people he's talking to say? And have you not known the things what's happened there and these days? And he said to them, what things and so they said to him the things concerning Jesus of Nazareth, who was a prophet mighty, and deed and word before God and all the people, and how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death and crucified him. But we were hoping that it was he who was going to redeem Israel Besides, indeed, besides all this, today is the third day since these things happen, anything in those verses that are good counseling techniques. Well, I noticed that they and he said to them, what things so one of the things that we do in counseling is we just reflect back what we've heard them say, so that they can stop and reflect on what they've just said.

Yeah, and then he kind of leaves them to state they're real. You know, what they really are thinking, what ad identify By saying that what things what was he really identifying what their beliefs were? Yeah. And were they good beliefs? No. And I don't have to convince you, but our beliefs important.

He Yes, they're absolutely important. That's basically what you're doing all day are the foundation of everything that we do and feel. So this ends up being a pretty good reflection of what you're actually doing. So we've already talked about this as the activated, what would be the activating event in this story? Well, Christ's death would be the activating event in the story. And it was an unfair trial.

What was that they had been going three days since it and hadn't seen the things that they were hoping for. Mm hmm. And that's kind of what was the consequence. So they were sharing their thoughts with each other. There was the sadness and the hopelessness and then the actual physical response, which was the slowness of their hearts Hmm. You know, That's interesting.

You mentioned that because in the Greek language, the word for slowness apart is bradycardia. And the actual Bible bradycardia. It's like what we use in the hospital today. And what was their belief about it? Well, he was supposed to redeem Israel as a conquering King, and they were to share in his rule, and there is no way he could lose. That's their initial belief, right?

So they're totally locked into this. So what was Jesus diagnosis? Do means through gnosis means to know he looks through, and he says, This is, by the way, do you ever come to like diagnoses when you're working with people all the time? I have to do that for insurance reasons. So you look through dia, and you come to a gnosis you kind of know what's going on. Well, let's see what his diagnosis was.

Then he said to them, oh, foolish one, and bradycardia are slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken. So what's his diagnosis? Well, they had it Rational beliefs call you were depressed. Yeah. And he calls them fools. Do you ever call your patients fools?

I can't say that I've done that. That might be a little harsh. They may not come back again. What sort of fool no better? Yes. So is there a difference?

We had a fool and someone who just doesn't even have the frontal lobe? Yes. What's the difference? The difference is they should know better. Yeah. So this is big.

The foundation is you expect people to have a healthy enough brain to actually know better. They might do foolish things or think foolish thoughts, but they can improve. So what needed to happen here there needed to be. He said that believed all the prophets have spoken others all the evidence is not there. We need to look at all the evidence. I remember.

An individual by the name of Carl Conrad said, propaganda is partial truth, half truth and truth out of context. Sometimes we believe things because we don't have The whole truth, we only have half truth or it's out of context. And I think that's what they were dealing with. So let's see what Christ does he, what does he use? He says, All the prophets have spoken. What does he use to dispute and uproot that faulty belief?

Let's look at it. Read it with maybe I usually say read it with me, when I'm in a group, and you can read it with us. As you're they're looking at this. I'm not the Christ who have suffered these things. And by the way, it does help to read it out loud, not the Christ who have suffered these things to enter into His glory. In other words, this was expected to supposed to be there and beginning at Moses and all the prophets he expounded which means to bring out to them in all the scriptures, the things concerning himself.

Does this what you do in therapy? Yes, I go through all the evidence if they'll let me. So on this one was bs beginning with Moses, what would those books be? Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers. Just Deuteronomy. So he's like he's going through those books.

He said he's showing about what they had said about him. And then all the prophets what would those be? Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Zachariah, Malika. This is good. So in other words, I've never asked you about this before, but this just tells me that you are an excellent CBT biblical counselor because you actually know the names of the books. Well, I had an elementary school teacher that made me memorize this.

Yeah, my dad made me memorize them and not made me. But he's also said, Now say them backwards and we just turn around. So he expounded them all the things in the scriptures concerning himself. And this was the spiritual therapy that he did with them, he understood their belief system, etc. So I actually nothing but the truth so help me God. Yes.

Now look at this. This is Like this slide, archives of general psychiatry, psychiatry, the power of correct thought I call it because down here you have a typical medication that's given for depression, which we talked about those, they do have some effectiveness 22 to 40%. But then cognitive behavioral therapy, which we saw goes up to nearly 70%. And notice on the slides, can you see what's happening in their frontal lobes? It's lighting up. So actually, I like to joke sometimes that this is the 12 disciples because there's 12 heads there, but it's really not.

But anyway, their heads are actually changing from the frontal lobe down. That's what happens with CBT. That's what I like to say about medication to medications, not smart. Our brains are so much smarter than medication point. So let's read what happened as a result of this therapy session. And by the way, the results of this therapy session are still going on today.

Because we're reading it Yeah. Then their eyes were open and they knew him and he vanished from their sight. You know, we like counselors are there but we don't want them with us all the time. They help us know how to thank and they can they can vanish. I tell my clients, my goal is empty nest syndrome. And they said to one another, did Matt our heart burn within us while he talked to us on the road, and while he opened the scriptures to us, Has that ever happened to you where your heart burns where you have a new insight that's called the truth setting us free?

Mm hmm. And they rose up that very hour they returned to Jerusalem and found the 11 and those who are with with them gathered together saying the Lord has risen indeed and has appeared assignment and they told about the things that happened on the road, and how he was known made known to them and the breaking of the bread. So he actually recounted what all the things that they had learned their CBT session, their biblical CBT session. Yep, maybe So it actually had an impact on them. And then they did the therapy on the 11th. I call that to first learn it from your therapist, and then you go teach it to somebody else.

You know, and I would say that about this lesson, I would say, outline it yourself and share it with someone else. I mean, this is a very powerful chapter. It no it helps you remember what to do, it helps others. So let's just summarize what happened and then we'll close the activating event was what Christ dying for us. And the belief then was what this was a fulfillment of prophecy that was changed it had misbelief that was wasn't supposed to happen. Now that was changed as a result, the consequence, sorrowful yet rejoicing, they still had emotions.

And yet, they also had positive emotions because they knew this was the truth. And I think that's so important because we can experience sad or what we would typically called negative emotions, but with a hopefulness with it. And that's what this is, is You can be sad but still hopeful. That's so important. And then D, the faulty belief had been disputed and uprooted and replaced with a new belief. Yeah, which was the resurrection.

They told other people about it. They explained all the things they had been given. And that therapy session is the basic, probably the most prominent theme in the New Testament, the resurrection, then evaluation, this disappointment was really a, an appointment. And he lives because of what they went through. They were actually more able to disciple other people in the future. They were believers.

They were bold, that were blessed, and now they had a goal. In other words, they weren't stuck anymore. And what was the goal? To spread that to others tell the 12 tell people in Jerusalem tell people in Syria and in fact, tell the entire world and that's why I kind of like this acronym. rational. In other words, it's logical, emotional, emotive spiritual therapy if we get our thoughts right, our feelings will be right.

And that's guided by thoughts that are higher than ours, God. And that's the therapy rest. Well, it's been great talking with you about any final thoughts before we close this. Great, I mean dialogue on spiritual CBT. Please get your thoughts straight and use God in the mix. Yes.

Thanks for joining us.